|
Post by cye on Oct 30, 2012 16:34:57 GMT -5
ps, roger, that picture puts me in mind of the control room of a nuclear power station. very professional.
what batteries do you use?
|
|
|
Post by horsall on Oct 30, 2012 17:06:57 GMT -5
Hello Cye Yes that's the address.
how much do you want for it?
Roger
|
|
|
Post by horsall on Oct 30, 2012 17:17:02 GMT -5
Hello Cye We Have 2 banks of traction batteries 2volt cells 24 in total 1120 amp hours capacity. we can can use either bank but we usually use both but it is useful to be able to equalize them individually as they are slightly different types (bought about 4/5years apart) Roger
|
|
|
Post by cye on Oct 30, 2012 17:19:18 GMT -5
i want nothing for it. i would be grateful however if you would let us know how it works out for you though.
all the best
|
|
|
Post by horsall on Oct 30, 2012 18:12:52 GMT -5
Hello Cye That,s very generous I will let you all know how I get on with the latest Resurrection of our ancient solar water heating system.
I have decided to go back to an unpressurized system as I am not after the high temperatures of a tubes system and also as our panels are below the tank it is easy to provided a header tank and I run it with antifreeze in the system. Roger
|
|
|
Post by horsall on Nov 1, 2012 15:14:22 GMT -5
Hello All I refilled the system today after fitting the solar controller. I am going to have to alter the pipe work as it was to difficult get all the air out of the system(I tried doing it simple as in Peter diagram) I amgoing to plumb it like an ordinary open vented central heating system with a feed to lower side of coil and an expansion from upper side of coil. We had a small amount of sun and the pump started up(it is a bit noisy at the moment but it is running on 13.6volts as that is what is feeding the controller and it uses the same voltage) The pump seemed to run for a long time compared to the old layout but that used 28mm pipe work and the T2 sensors was on the outlet coil pipe. I am hoping this means the panels are adding more heat to the water as it is going through slower plus T2 sensor is in a pocket 200mm up from the base of the tank. What temperature difference do you all run your panels at? I used to run the old setup at about 4/6degF and the pump used to cut in and out often whereas now it runs for a long time and the T1 sensor temperature seems slow to drop(is this good or bad?) All this a new learning curve for my old brain! Attached a photo of the home made tracker panel supports and vertical tracking mech. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by cye on Nov 1, 2012 16:04:46 GMT -5
the diagram on peter's site is not ideal. When not using an expansion vessel, a F&E tank should always be fitted above the highest point in the plumbing loop, or , for direct flow, the panels should be fitted lower than the cold water tank. a system can of course be made to work as per peter's diagram, i.e., with some solar pipework above anything else, but it would be difficult to commission and you would thereafter rely on syphon to keep the highest points air-free.
when you say the pump is on for longer than before, was this with another pump? And with 10mm pipe not previously used that will increase the resistance to flow and reduce the flow rate. How long are your 10mm pipe runs?
if you want to tell me the length/bores of the various pipe sizes used in your loop i can predict a flow rate.
I'm not that familiar with the 'commercial' controller (mine living in a cardboard box and only taken out for workshops), but i recollect it may have a lower off temperature than on temperature, and this may be part of the reason the pump is on for longer. i just run my picaxe-based controller at delta T of 5 degrees and the pump cycling is not an issue.
the pwm controller was posted today. hope it does what you need it to do. note that it pulses whatever voltage it is given (up to 40v), i.e., there is no step down in it. keep the input voltage below 25v. it's fit for up to 7a which is plenty. check the output polarity before connecting the PV pump as the pump has no reverse polarity protection.
does the pv mount pole also rotate on a vertical axis? i can see one satellite type actuator but it seems to be for inclination? have i missed something?
all the best
cye
|
|
|
Post by horsall on Nov 1, 2012 17:00:03 GMT -5
Hello Cye before I used to use a normal c/h pump with the gate valves almost shut but the pipe work was 28mm from the thermo syphon days.
The new pipe runs are about 6.5m in 10mm with a bit of 15mm to 22mm to the coil
The solar panel I don't think will offer any resistance as top and bottom tubes are 28mm with 14 vertical 15mm tubes in each panel.
When you say Delta T of 5 degs what do you mean(I am old and a bit slow)
The manual says it is set at 8degC on and 4degC off which can be adjusted to within 2degC of each other(I changed mine to show deg F as I don't like deg C as I am old!
The bottom of the tracker is inside the engine shed as on previous photo.
I am running central heating fernox F3 cleaner through the c/h at the moment I was wondering it it would be worth running it through the solar system to clean the panels(but I suppose if I don,t get enough heat it would not work)
Roger
|
|
|
Post by cye on Nov 1, 2012 17:41:14 GMT -5
those sort of lengths of 10mm pipe would provide an extra drag but not excessive. you are right in that the panels have been designed for low resistance to flow, proven by the fact they worked on thermosyphon for years. compared with a CH pump the flow rate of the PV pump will be slower.
sorry DeltaT is the temperature between the panel and the HW tank base. like you, i would prefer those two temperatures closer.
you can clean the inside of the pipes with diluted milkstone remover from the local farm suppliers. it's phosphoric and it's cheap, but i wouldn't risk a good pump with that stuff just in case.
i use a dilution of fernox alphi 11 in my panels. it's a central heating lube combined with antifreeze.
|
|
|
Post by horsall on Nov 1, 2012 18:25:51 GMT -5
Hello Cye Thank,s for the info I thought that's what was mean,t I shall try and set the values lower as I think the 8deg is for tube type collectors I have bought 5lts of this to put in the system when I have finished messing about CURA INHIBITED ANTI-FREEZE CURA combined anti-freeze and inhibitor is suitable for protecting heating, ground source heat pumps and solar systems. It helps prevent corrosion, bacterial contamination and limescale formation. Suitable for all metals. Build Cert approved. Systems require 25% min. concentration. Part No. Description Unit Price Qty 20029 CURA inhibited anti-freeze, 5 litres £16.66 I used to use ordinary car antifreeze then I read your tips(still we are not dead yet But this stuff is just as cheap but it is not marketed by Solar company's and free p&p over £40 before vat any where in EU I am hoping the adjustable psu will arrive soon i have found a cheaper site www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170892106293?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649Photo from our trip to USA to ride route66 in September this year 4150mls in 3.5weeks on Harley Davidson,s Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by cye on Nov 2, 2012 4:11:43 GMT -5
who supplies the Cura? that's a very good price indeed. thanks for posting.
and those step down psus are for nothing. i might get a handful, free up the more expensive buck boost psus i have on my battery-powered alarm etc.
that route 66 trip looks like the stuff memories are made of! reminds me of a crackly song on my very scratched original stones first album. i guess the US is a good place to take a long trip on a harley, with petrol being nearly free by comparison to here! i have a 602cc flat twin powered trike in the shed and also a honda c50 waiting to be rebuilt, neither a patch on that beauty!
all the best
|
|
|
Post by horsall on Nov 2, 2012 4:30:22 GMT -5
Hello Cye This is the company that supplies the antifreeze and other stuff I find them very competitive. www.bes.co.uk/Going to alter the feed and vent today before the sun gets onto the panels. What is the 602cc engine (a urinal!!!! ;D) I have 3 Velocettes 1938 350KSS, 1938 500MSS, 1964 350Viper plus a 2005 750 Moto Guzzi Breva. The tune you are thinking of is get your kicks on Route 66. Photo is of a motel room were Bobby Troupe slept and ME(but not at the same time) Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by cye on Nov 2, 2012 6:56:31 GMT -5
i like the stones version of the route 66 song slightly better than bobby troup's, though they're both good. bobby's is more easy listening jazz.
the 602cc is an aircooled citroen engine, almost bulletproof & a common replacement engine for the urals, cossacks, dneprs etc.
BES are a good lot. they also do the flap type (low resistance) non return valves which are hard to get in plumbers merchants over here (in the north at least).
|
|
|
Post by horsall on Nov 2, 2012 8:53:04 GMT -5
Hi Altered feed and vent and refilled with out problems, but I can still hear a slight trickling sound in the tank coil? it maybe the coil has a slight rise inside the tank so there is an air pocket? I think I will leave it for a few days as it is sunny and perhaps it will clear with higher temperatures! Still have not got the adjustable psu and the pump whines a bit at this speed(13.5v) I have reset the controller to factory default as it was running almost constantly on the smaller temperature differences. I can see this is going to take a bit of experimenting to get the best out of the system. Its a good job I am retired? Just got to wire in the boiler thermostat now so it will raise the temperature at the end of the day if there has not been enough solar heat, plus the T3 sensor is a lot more accurate than those electromechanical cylinder stats with their 10degs off on tolerance plus I can tell the controller to heat the water just once in a manual setting mode. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by cye on Nov 2, 2012 16:54:57 GMT -5
it often takes a good sunny day to drive the air from a recent charge of solar fluid. hot water holds less air.
the pwm speed controller should be with you tomorrow. i don't think the pump should wine much at all but i guess they are not entirely noiseless. is it bolted to something that is transmitting or resonating with the vibes perhaps? if it continues to bother you sure just send the pump back i will replace it.
Retirement is when there is time (eventually) to do what needs to be done! my late father used to say he hardly had time to go to work :-)
all the best
|
|